Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by dumbcritic on Fri Jul 12, 2019 03:27 PM

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Dr. Noy, was featured in a recent OncLive article discussing treatment of Burkitt Lymphoma using Devimistat (CPI-613) https://www.onclive.com/web-exclusives/devimistat-could-have

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 14, 2019 01:38 AM

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critic, the Calitheria and Nektar drugs are exciting! We are approaching the point where powerful FDA approved pharmaceuticals could be available to amplify other metabolic strategies. I am considering what might happen if CB-839 were to be combined with other metabolics. Glutamine, glucose, OXPHOS these are important cancer targets. What happens when all of them could be selectively turned off in cancer cells?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Jul 14, 2019 06:23 PM

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There is some news that the thread should be made aware of.                                                                                 Big news.                                                                         The biggest news ever!

It had seemed too quiet to me lately. I have been wondering what's happening with 3-BP? Now we know.

Within the last few days a South Korean company has entered into metabolic cancer treatment; specifically into 3-BP medicine. Apparently, the intention is to move 3-BP formulations into clinical trials over the near term.

The translations are not entirely clear, though from what I understand, 3-BP technology transfer has occurred officially involving a range of cancer indications including breast, liver, bladder and melanoma. The wording is unclear though the intention appears for the technology for other indications to also be transferred.   

The South Korean company made a wise move by apparently bringing on side many of the metabolic thought leaders. It will not be easy to have much of an argument when everyone knowledable about metabolics are already on the team.

It would have been helpful, though, if there had been a simultaneous press release in English through the American based companies (e.g., Ko Discovery). This is how such communications typically are reported. However, I have not seen such a release yet through Ko Discovery. 

It will obviously be extremely interesting to learn how 3-BP thought leaders would approach formulation, patient selection, etc.. 3-BP has had such a lengthy preamble before clinical testing that there could be yet more powerful strategies that have not been reported.

The beta-cyclodextrin 3-BP that Cage Pharma is apparently intending to bring to the clinic certainly looks impressive, though one suspects that those with even deeper mechanistic knowledge of 3-BP could find an even more effective treatment. There has been some notable 3-BP Korean research that might be integrated into a treatment.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Sun Jul 21, 2019 08:18 AM

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J: Do you have a link to the Korean article? My granddaughter may be able to translate. She is a songwriter working in Korea. Lovastatin was approved, so Shirley started taking that yesterday. Still waiting approval for Dipyridamole. Also looking into Mebendazole, another drug recommended by Jane McClelland. A drug company has cornered the market on it here in the US, raising prices from $5/dose to $400/dose in the last few years. Apparently, it's still cheap outside the US and available over the counter.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Mon Jul 22, 2019 04:53 AM

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JohnnyP, this is overwhelmingly exciting! This has to be an all time high for the thread. With whatever authority I might have to make such a pronouncement, I do declare it.  

40 billion KRW to move a 3-BP candidate to phase 2? Finally we are talking in terms of the resources needed to move this forward. To me, this feels like the first relevant action ever taken to effectively manage the cancer epidemic.

Once clinical trials with 3-BP are decisively begun, then a range of other complementary treatments could fill in the ecological niche created (e.g., perhaps chitosan paracetamol etc.).

As all on thread are all to familiar with the biology of 3-BP, it should be highly expected that some cancer subgroup will be identified by PET scan (e.g. acetate PET scan) who would be 3-BP super responders. {I was able to find this one PMID:25569102 again! Without OXPHOS, how would ccRCC cells withstand 3-BP? Finding even one such subgroup with large expected responses could end the discussion about 3-BP's effectiveness.} 

It is difficult to imagine how such a magical ability to predict those patients who will respond to  treatment before treatment is even given could result in any other outcome than 3-BP approval. Of course, the near immediate symptomatic benefit experienced by reported patients to date, with no side effects, and very large short term reduction in tumor metabolism would be notably at odds with most other available cancer treatments. 

3-BP is not a typical drug in clinical development. It has been researched and researched some more and given to patients in various official and less official circumstances for almost 20 years. It has already demonstrated effectiveness in  essentially hopeless patients (e.g., the melanoma patient, also an unpublished stage IV lung cancer patient, etc.). Given this prior, I will pull for a parallel process in which medically hopeless patients ineligible for 3-BP clinical trial treatment be given compassionate access to treatment alongside the 3-BP clinical trials. Given our present knowledge about the effectiveness of 3-BP, it is not ethically defensible to pretend that somehow we do not have such knowledge of its effectiveness; we do. One might only imagine that if a series of such non-medically viable patients were to recover, then nothing short of a panic might emerge to open up 3-BP more broadly. This is as it should be! If evidence is found that it is effective, then the only morally acceptable outcome is that others in need be made aware of these results and be allowed to respond accordingly. We have already waited too long.

One of the Korean articles talked of how the company wanted to demonstrate that 3-BP is not "fake technology". I was sufficiently satisfied on this question from the melanoma patients report when his LDH fell by 99.7% after combo  3-BP and paracetamol. If the company were to prospectively replicate this result, though its potential could be more widely appreicated.  

It is possible that the 40 billion might also include some room for exploration of the 3-BP chemical space. Up till now 3-BP has been the standard chemical considered out of the 3-BP analog universe, though other similar drugs might offer potential advantages ( in terms of safety, effectiveness etc.). If some searching were done (ethyl bromopyruvate etc.), then an even better candidate might emerge. It is somewhat of a tricky call: Go with what you know, or find something better. We'll have to wait and watch to see how they approach this question. 

There are quite a few articles that are reporting on this from  Korean online sources. The translations are quite good, though it would be helpful if they were even clearer. It will be great having some help translating from your granddaughter! Also her reach into Korean internet space could be quite valuable. I am not sure whether outsiders are given the same search results as locals. I am very interested in knowing whether 3-BP treatment has entered Korean "alternative" clinics as we have seen emerge in several other nations.

New Zyrap, New Jip Lab, possibly other variants. I have made admirable process in learning Korean, so I realize that "r" could actually be spelled "l", and "p" could be "b", I'll have to double check whether "z" could be "j". Might you be able to clarify the name of the KOSDAQ company involved with 3-BP development? 

There are a number of other uncertainties for me. Have they already treated stage IV patients and had extended reponses, as suggested in the quote below?

"??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????."

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u

"New Zyrap Pharma "Clinical Launch in 2021 .. Goal of listing on Nasdaq in 2023" "

"New Jip Lab is an expert in the field of metabolic anti-cancer medicine to make a new drug development for metabolism cancer drug. It is composed of the research team of the New Jipap Pharma science advisory committee. It is a pre-clinical study of rat and pigs, radiological studies, liver cancer, melanoma, bladder cancer, lung cancer, We conducted experiments on patients. In particular, patients with stage IV neuroendocrine carcinoma have been healthy for over 10 years."

I am anxiously awaiting an English language disclosure of everything that is now on the table. If it is intended to move this to NASDAQ over the next few years, then having American transparency right from the start seems reasonable.

JohnnyP, I am glad that you are willing to explore these alternative treatments. One idea that emerged from discussion on D's forum was complexifying treatment. Cancer thrives when the same challenge is presented to it in the same way time after time. Be complex! D's forum has generated excitement for silver nanoparticles and Fenbendazole.

It is not clear to me how increasing the prices of these generic drugs could be understood as being legal. Going by the rule of thumb that law is what the reasonable man on the street thinks is fair, I would favor the interpretation that it is not legal. "Jcancom, do you think it reasonable that the price of a generic drug could be increased by a factor of 10 or more by a company not exposed to development risk?"   "No. Next question."

Price, though, can be used as a mechanism to create the perception of value. If it costs a great deal of money, then presumably it must have at least some value (though even this is not always clear with some cancer therapies). I do not want to think about how much a treatment such as 3-BP might ultimately cost if price were set at a profit maximizing level. 3-BP wouldn't merely create a perception that it was effective, it should indeed be highly effective for pre-specified patients.   

We continue to see positive results from D's patients, so the metabolic approaches that we have long advocated for and I encourage you to consder truly do seem to be helpful. Yet, the answers are still somewhat elusive and require ongoing struggle and effort.

Best Wishes, Jcancom

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Mon Jul 22, 2019 05:03 PM

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Daniel posted about statins (such as Lovastatin) on his forum yesterday:

https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=3126&reffere

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Jul 23, 2019 02:45 AM

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JohnnyP, this is very exciting! We are seeing treatment after treatment posted to D's forum. I wanted to stay somewhat neutral about your comment about statins because I was not sure whether your treatment was the latest with statins. D's post that you noted gives us the latest along with a stage IV patient who was able to control their cancer with this new protocol. We are building up an impressive team of metabolic treatments that one could cycle through in order to find something that would be effective. Some on D's forum might be going around the clock with these various therapies. 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:43 AM

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J:

Shirley had a severe muscle spasm last Friday, so we saw her PCP today to get a muscle relaxer.  She noticed Shirley is taking Lovastin, and told us statins can cause that.  So, Shirley nixed anymore Lovastin.  Was only on it for a week.

And, she is losing weight again, down to 135.  Getting scared.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:21 PM

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JohnnyP, I am sorry to hear this. By muscle spasm, might you be refering to a seizure? Interestingly, strict ketogenic diets have been one treatment approach that have been found to be relatively successful in preventing them. How do you understand the weight loss (that is, it is perhaps related to appetite loss, etc)?

You are doing such a great job as a caregiver. As time moves forward one can become emotionally exhausted in that role, so it is always a good idea to step back for some me time.

To counteract the fear, there is so much online research to consider. D's site has an increasing number of accessible treatments that seem to be helping those on forum. I continue to have the impression that we are moving closer and closer towards a broad metabolic treatment that will be beneficial to patients.

I understand that this is a very difficult time for you and I send you my best wishes as you cope with the challenges, J 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Sat Jul 27, 2019 04:56 PM

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J:

Thanks you.

She had a muscle spasm under her right shoulder blade.  We did ice packs for a few days, then finally saw the doctor and got a muscle relaxer.  She is finally getting some rest.  I think she will be off it in another day or so.

About the weight loss, yes, keto is one factor, loss of appetite from the cancer is another.  I am pretty sure she is in cachexia, where the cancer takes over and tells the body to break down protein as well as fat.

In starvation or long term fasting, the body is smart enough to preserve protein, using mostly fat.

I found an article on a possible treatment, using fish oil.  In this study, they were taking eleven capsules twice a day:

Phase II study of high-dose fish oil capsules for patients with cancer-related cachexia†

I found fish oil in a liquid form on amazon and ordered a quart bottle.  The fish taste/smell has been filtered out, and orange flavor added.  It's very good.  She has been taking three tablespoons a day, yielding about 10 grams of omega 3.

And, I found a new drug that can add lean muscle, but don't know if it's on the market yet:

Appetite and food intake results from phase I studies of anamorelin:

We see the oncologist again next week, so I will ask about anamorelin, and try again to get dypridamole and mebendazole.

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